iPad 3 disappointment for me as a photographer(resolved, kinda)

Jump to latest Follow Reply
Status
Not open for further replies.
D

DuronBoy

Ars Tribunus Militum
2,189
  • #1
    EDIT: Images edited in any way by adobe photoshop CS5, with a size of 14megapixels or higher, load significantly slower than non-adobe touched files.
    I also noticed images that I didn't edit with CS5 are not destroyed by my 4S when emailing a smaller than original size. Weirdness.

    EDIT 2 Images edited by CS5 do NOT load slowly if saved as a TIFF for iTunes, instead of JPG.




    I've been primarily using my original iPad for viewing, showing my photographs to clients, and looking at other's photographs online. On occasion, I'll browse high-resolution images. While the original iPad is great for viewing high-res photos synced via itunes, it's not useful at all for viewing high-res photos online. For example, if I use Safari to view an image that's 3162 x 4743, the iPad will only show an image that's 791x1186. Not the worst resolution in the world, but so far from the original. When I heard about the iPad 3 having a quad-core processor and 1GB of RAM, in adition to having a screen 4 times the resolution, I just KNEW the iPad 3 would address this issue. Not so.

    The iPad 3 is a sore disappointment for viewing high-res photos synced both through iTunes, and ESPECIALLY high-res images online, because it behaves EXACTLY the same way as the original iPad. If you want to view a high-res image online on your gorgeous retina display capable of 1536x2048, you have to save the image to the camera roll, open the photo app, then look at it again. WTF? I forgave the original iPad because of it's relatively limited resources, but the iPad 3 has no excuse. However, viewing these high-res photos through Safari isn't something I do every day, so I can see myself letting this go.

    What I can't let go is the behavior of the iPad 3 when viewing photos synced through iTunes. Granted, the files that end up living on the iPad 3 are double in size in both directions compared to the original and ipad 2. The size is now 4608 x 3072 vs 2304 x 1536. Since 1536 is the native horizontal resolution of the iPad 3, one would not be able to zoom in on a photograph and actually see more detail. So, this 4x increase in detail is expected and welcomed. What isn't welcomed is the increased load times of images. On my original ipad, scrolling to a new image and letting that image load at the fit-to-screen view of 768 x 1024 takes maybe a half second at most. A double tap to access that 1536 x 2048 file might take another 3 seconds. Totally acceptable. When we load those same images on an iPad 3, now they're loading a fit-to-screen res 1536 x 2048. Loading those takes anywhere from 0 seconds to 5 seconds. When we go to a double tap zoom to access that 4608 x 3072, some images take a reasonable 3 seconds. However, if I scroll a few ahead really fast, like maybe 3 or 4 images ahead, it takes 7-18 seconds to load. Again, another giant WTF?

    I haven't loaded any apps yet, I plan to play with that tomorrow. I'm planning on playing some infinity blade in hopes of falling back in love with this thing, even though gaming is not what I purchased this for. In the end, what I purchased this for it's acceptable at. For the most part, when clients are using the iPad to view images, they are viewing images very slowly, and rarely do they zoom in. The fact that the thing loads the fit-to-screen images within 5 seconds makes it useful, and the increased resolution will be nice. I'm just feeling a little let down considering how much extra power this has, but obviously isn't using for the photo aspect.

    On a side note, did anyone else notice a significant drop in performance in the photo app when going from the iphone 4 to the 4S? I also had an unresolvable bug with my 4S where images that it resized from my itunes syncs would be destroyed if the phone had to resize them. For example, if I texted or emailed a photograph from a folder other than camera roll, and chose a size smaller than actual, the images would be almost unrecognizable to the recipient. That issue aside, the 4S photo app takes longer to load images that the 4, and there was no increase in resolution or file size. WTF, APPLE?
     
    T

    Topinio

    Ars Tribunus Militum
    1,954
    Subscriptor
  • #2
    Does the new iPad have more bandwidth to storage than the last one? You're trying to load images 4 times the size, so if the flash access is similar to on the previous model it could well take 4 times as long to do so. Yes, this is something they ought to have considered, because their software creates the image files at these resolutions from your originals.

    The longer delays when scrolling ahead suggest it's trying to read the images sequentially, regardless of whether you open them all, which is a badly-designed read-ahead strategy so another failure. Shame.
     
    F

    flyingember

    Ars Legatus Legionis
    21,281
  • #3
    what about your complaints isn't normal and expected behavior?

    stop comparing it to desktop functionality. it's an Arm processor optimized for battery life and you're trying to load huge images.

    I would like to point out one thing. Adobe limited their iPad 2 app to 1600x1600. The iPad 3 has the same processor and doubtless most of the additional RAM is driving the screen. It was a stupid decision but it's also telling that people who use products like Photoshop are unhappy with the response time of working with big images. It's likely the tradeoff one gets and Adobe chose one direction and Apple another.
     
    H

    hestermofet

    Ars Legatus Legionis
    24,803
  • #4
    flyingember":2mdgfre1 said:
    what about your complaints isn't normal and expected behavior?.
    Click to expand...

    Well, there's this on Apple's minisite:


    "The Retina display on the new iPad wouldn’t be possible without the new and powerful A5X chip. It drives power to every one of the 3.1 million pixels in the display. And its quad-core graphics processing makes everything you do on iPad feel incredibly responsive."

    The part above (which i didnt quote) even makes specific mention of photo editing.
     
    M

    mr_yellow

    Ars Tribunus Militum
    1,829
  • #5
    I think resetting your expectations is in order. Though I am in the disappointed camp since I'm still on the fence about buying one, I'd have to agree with flyingember that it's still the same A5 arm processor with only a little bit more ram. I do know Apple does a lot of caching tricks to keep the UI responsive so your complaints in the photos app might be a one time deal. ie. in iBooks, the thumbnails at the bottom of the screen take a few seconds to load at first but after that, it loads quickly and instantly. I assume a lot of the other Apple apps work the same way.

    It does kinda suck that one of the primary uses of the new screen falls on it's face.
     
    F

    flyingember

    Ars Legatus Legionis
    21,281
  • #7
    exactly

    you're working with a 14mp photo on a 3mp screen.

    in fact I'd argue that drawing delays are more likey given the huge amount of information you're asking it to work with using a mobile processor

    there's two parts. reading the image and displaying the image. it has to not only read 3 million pixels it has to figure out how to display 3 million pixels and trade them in and out of RAM. that's an extremely ram intensive process even in Photoshop on the desktop. But these days your desktop has far more computing power to work with and given it's lower resolution screen can do more with interpolation which means less frame buffer necessary.

    So I'd argue you're getting exactly what you paid for. high resolution at the expense of slowdown for huge image files

    so in now way is the system falling on it's face. Again, recognize that Adobe, the standard, has purposefully limited their product to smaller images on the iPad 2. with the same processor. They chose a speed for image size tradeoff. Scaling up I bet they'll do it again when they update their app.
     
    M

    metamatic

    Ars Centurion
    229
  • #8
    When I heard about the iPad 3 having a quad-core processor and 1GB of RAM, in adition to having a screen 4 times the resolution, I just KNEW the iPad 3 would address this issue. Not so.
    Click to expand...

    It doesn't have a quad-core processor. It has a dual-core processor like the previous iPad, but a quad-core GPU to deal with blitting around the huge bitmaps required for the higher resolution screen. Big difference.

    However, if I scroll a few ahead really fast, like maybe 3 or 4 images ahead, it takes 7-18 seconds to load. Again, another giant WTF?
    Click to expand...

    Scrolling is accelerated by the GPU, so the actual scrolling around is fast. Loading and decompressing images and other web assets is CPU and IO bound, so it'll be the same speed as on the iPad 2, or slower because of the need to rasterize to a higher resolution.

    I was holding out for an Asus Transformer Pad Infinity, but I'm starting to wonder if high DPI displays aren't a bit impractical for tablets for the next 2-3 years.
     
    H

    hestermofet

    Ars Legatus Legionis
    24,803
  • #9
    I don't know if "he's" getting what he paid for (from the point of view of a layman. 14MP Is not a "huge" file: I bought a point and shoot yesterday for $80 that shoots at 12MP. 12MP is the absolute baseline for a low end consumer level camera. Apple sells a Digital Camera Connection Kit, so they certainly intend for their users to upload full Rez files to their iPad. Not only upload, but also manipulate, because they released iPhoto. This is a completely intended and supported use case for an iPad. Apple in several places in their marketing make explicit that the new GPU in the iPad 3 makes graphics (including photo editing) faster. With those factors in mind, I think it's perfectly reasonable for the average user who doesn't know about hardware internals (and possibly doesn't care) to expect that the new iPad will be able to handle the output of a digital camera at least as fast as an iPad 2.


    I think it's a case of a new feature being introduced before the rest of the hardware is ready for it.
     
    A

    Aetles

    Seniorius Lurkius
    10
  • #10
    hestermofet":1ncbslsj said:
    I think it's a case of a new feature being introduced before the rest of the hardware is ready for it.
    Click to expand...

    So you're say that they should have keept the low resolution screen?

    Just because this edge case (yes, it is) is too much for the current hardware doesn't mean that most users won't enjoy the new screen tremendously without any disappointment.
     
    D

    DuronBoy

    Ars Tribunus Militum
    2,189
  • #11
    AndyG":2w9nb36h said:
    Does the new iPad have more bandwidth to storage than the last one? You're trying to load images 4 times the size, so if the flash access is similar to on the previous model it could well take 4 times as long to do so. Yes, this is something they ought to have considered, because their software creates the image files at these resolutions from your originals.

    The longer delays when scrolling ahead suggest it's trying to read the images sequentially, regardless of whether you open them all, which is a badly-designed read-ahead strategy so another failure. Shame.
    Click to expand...


    I don't know the numbers, but that can't be the issue. The actual file size of the new photo app images is only about 3 megabytes, so if a significant portion of that 18 seconds is waiting for data from flash, I'd be highly surprised.


    hestermofet":2w9nb36h said:
    flyingember":2w9nb36h said:
    what about your complaints isn't normal and expected behavior?.
    Click to expand...

    Well, there's this on Apple's minisite:


    "The Retina display on the new iPad wouldn’t be possible without the new and powerful A5X chip. It drives power to every one of the 3.1 million pixels in the display. And its quad-core graphics processing makes everything you do on iPad feel incredibly responsive."

    The part above (which i didnt quote) even makes specific mention of photo editing.
    Click to expand...

    Plus, there's the commercial where it shows someone looking at photos. The impression is that the photos are professional, and that load times are half-second to INSTANT. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJxZ0HVQXo8

    Shades047":2w9nb36h said:
    I don't think working with 4608 x 3072 images is a "primary use of the new screen", at least as defined in whatever internal design specification Apple built this to. That doesn't make this less if a shame though. I guess it just shows that an iPad isn't a computer substitute for 100% of the world yet.
    Click to expand...

    You don't think? Even since the first third of the commercial by Apple I just linked to is about viewing photos? And, since any photo synced to an iPad 3 that's equal or greater in size to 4608 x 3072 is going to be 4608 x 3072 when it gets on the iPad?
     
    arcite

    arcite

    Ars Legatus Legionis
    24,994
  • #13
    Oh man, talk about 'first world problems'. Let us not forget that a scant two or three years ago it would not be possible to even view or manipulate such large images on a tablet. Now we can do it, but it takes a few extra seconds. Some people are never happy. Rest assured that the next incremental update in 6-8 months will most likely include a faster processor. But then again, some people will never be happy with the pace of innovation.
     
    B

    Bicentennial Douche

    Ars Legatus Legionis
    10,339
    Subscriptor
  • #14
    DuronBoy":382qfc9b said:
    Plus, there's the commercial where it shows someone looking at photos. The impression is that the photos are professional, and that load times are half-second to INSTANT. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJxZ0HVQXo8
    Click to expand...

    So, are you saying that the ad is misleading? Funny, I have looked at photos countless times on my iPad 2, and I see nothing weird in the ad.
     
    S

    Sulis

    Ars Praefectus
    5,295
    Subscriptor
  • #16
    I have just tried this on my new iPad (3), and can categorically state that I do not see the behaviour you mention as regards photos synced to the iPad through iTunes.

    I can flick through my albums of 12MP photos (from my Nikon D3) at high speed - very occasionally one will take a fraction of a second to sharpen up, but otherwise it is seamless. Tap to zoom in is pretty much instant, too. I don't store my photos online, so I can't check that - but presumably that will be utterly dependent on your network connection.

    You have either got a dud iPad (it happens), or you have done something funny in the sync.

    Note: This thread has appeared on the main pages in the Zite app, which is one of the reasons I am keen to supply my own personal rebuttal of the OP's experience. If anyone else has an iPad (3), please try it as well.

    Edit: Reading the OP's post again, I suspect that there is something funny in his setup. Even the iPad 1 shouldn't have had that much lag, and I don't see his experience with the 4S either. If he could supply more details about his setup and the formats he uses for his images it would be helpful.
     
    D

    DuronBoy

    Ars Tribunus Militum
    2,189
  • #17
    Penforhire":227inc63 said:
    Commercial? You mean like the one where Siri is perfect and instant, lol?
    Click to expand...

    Yes, I'll agree, Siri was a giant disappointment as well. I never have problems with it understanding my speech, it's always a network issue or something. I would say Siri has worked 1/3 of my attempts to use it.

    arcite":227inc63 said:
    Oh man, talk about 'first world problems'. Let us not forget that a scant two or three years ago it would not be possible to even view or manipulate such large images on a tablet. Now we can do it, but it takes a few extra seconds. Some people are never happy. Rest assured that the next incremental update in 6-8 months will most likely include a faster processor. But then again, some people will never be happy with the pace of innovation.
    Click to expand...

    Yes, we often discuss first-world problems on this forum. It's about technology, and right now we're talking about the latest technology. Definitely a first-world issue.
    Janne":227inc63 said:
    DuronBoy":227inc63 said:
    Plus, there's the commercial where it shows someone looking at photos. The impression is that the photos are professional, and that load times are half-second to INSTANT. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJxZ0HVQXo8
    Click to expand...

    So, are you saying that the ad is misleading? Funny, I have looked at photos countless times on my iPad 2, and I see nothing weird in the ad.
    Click to expand...

    See, we're talking about the iPad 3, or as Apple likes to call it, "The new iPad."

    Sulis":227inc63 said:
    I have just tried this on my new iPad (3), and can categorically state that I do not see the behaviour you mention as regards photos synced to the iPad through iTunes.

    I can flick through my albums of 12MP photos (from my Nikon D3) at high speed - very occasionally one will take a fraction of a second to sharpen up, but otherwise it is seamless. Tap to zoom in is pretty much instant, too. I don't store my photos online, so I can't check that - but presumably that will be utterly dependent on your network connection.

    You have either got a dud iPad (it happens), or you have done something funny in the sync.

    Note: This thread has appeared on the main pages in the Zite app, which is one of the reasons I am keen to supply my own personal rebuttal of the OP's experience. If anyone else has an iPad (3), please try it as well.

    Edit: Reading the OP's post again, I suspect that there is something funny in his setup. Even the iPad 1 shouldn't have had that much lag, and I don't see his experience with the 4S either. If he could supply more details about his setup and the formats he uses for his images it would be helpful.
    Click to expand...


    I work with a Canon 7D and 5D II, so my files are a quite a bit larger. But, with regards to your statement that double-tap to zoom is almost instant, I ask that you look at an image with very fine detail. Perhaps look at an image with hair. Zoom into an area where the hair is in focus. You might notice jaggy lines for several more seconds than you think.
     
    S

    Sulis

    Ars Praefectus
    5,295
    Subscriptor
  • #18
    DuronBoy":2cg2kdt5 said:
    I work with a Canon 7D and 5D II, so my files are a quite a bit larger. But, with regards to your statement that double-tap to zoom is almost instant, I ask that you look at an image with very fine detail. Perhaps look at an image with hair. Zoom into an area where the hair is in focus. You might notice jaggy lines for several more seconds than you think.
    Click to expand...
    Nope. Not at all. There is absolutely no lag in displaying the full resolution. [Edit: Actually, I DO see a very slight increase in very fine detail after about a second. This is very marginal, but I do see it. It's only perceptible on a few of my photos, and frankly I wouldn't expect the average client to be even aware of it. However, I can see that on photos that rely on super-fine detail you might be aware of it - but if you are scrutinising a photo in that sort of detail then you'd be spending quite a lot of time on each image anyway.]

    I do request that others confirm this. The size of your original files should be irrelevant, as all photos are resampled at the native resolution, as you indicate in your original post...

    My originals are stored in folders in Pictures on my (Mac) home folder.
     
    R

    RDF

    Wise, Aged Ars Veteran
    188
  • #19
    flyingember":24lmueji said:
    what about your complaints isn't normal and expected behavior?
    Click to expand...

    I was reading DuronBoy's post and thinking the same thing. Worse, Sulis' post seems to confirm that DuronBoy is a bit off base with this one. This isn't to argue that the "new iPad" is the perfect photography tool. Rather, it's a much better tool than the original iPad.
     
    S

    Sulis

    Ars Praefectus
    5,295
    Subscriptor
  • #21
    I would suspend judgement until others have had a chance to replicate my experience - DuronBoy obviously has significant problems, and it seems unlikely that it would be a dud iPad (especially as he seems to have been having issues with his previous iPad).

    My feeling is that there is something about his images that is causing a problem. I did notice a couple of my images that had a fractional lag in resolving, and the same when zoomed in - however this was nowhere near 10-17 seconds (more like fractions of a second)! I checked those files and could see no difference between them and the others - most of my images are well over 40Mb (many over 120Mb) and have been Photoshopped, Nik'd, with layers and curves, etc.

    One possible cause may be format - mine used a variety of formats (.nef, .psd., .jpg) but no TIFFs - I wonder if DuronBoy could share the formats, file sizes and PP process? If he could upload some of the actual files somewhere I could download them, I could see if I can replicate his experience...

    Such is the difference between his experience and mine that I have posted a crude video online to demonstrate the speed at which I can go through images on the iPad 3: http://vimeo.com/38655442. The screen doesn't look as smooth as it is due to moire from the Lumix LX3, but you should get the idea.
     
    B

    Bicentennial Douche

    Ars Legatus Legionis
    10,339
    Subscriptor
  • #24
    DuronBoy":7n0qmnt4 said:
    Janne":7n0qmnt4 said:
    DuronBoy":7n0qmnt4 said:
    Plus, there's the commercial where it shows someone looking at photos. The impression is that the photos are professional, and that load times are half-second to INSTANT. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJxZ0HVQXo8
    Click to expand...

    So, are you saying that the ad is misleading? Funny, I have looked at photos countless times on my iPad 2, and I see nothing weird in the ad.
    Click to expand...

    See, we're talking about the iPad 3, or as Apple likes to call it, "The new iPad."
    Click to expand...

    So, what is the problem with the ad? They look at photos and zoom in to one. And that's misleading because...? I do that with my iPad 2 routinely with zero issues, and I don't see why looking at photos would be any worse on the new iPad. So what exactly is your complaint?
     
    S

    Sulis

    Ars Praefectus
    5,295
    Subscriptor
  • #25
    Janne":j8l1ydo1 said:
    So, what is the problem with the ad? They look at photos and zoom in to one. And that's misleading because...? I do that with my iPad 2 routinely with zero issues, and I don't see why looking at photos would be any worse on the new iPad. So what exactly is your complaint?
    Click to expand...

    I don't think there is a generic problem with the iPad 3 - as you can see here: http://vimeo.com/38655442. I think the DuronBoy has a specific problem with his images - but that doesn't make it less frustrating for him. Let's see if we can get to the bottom of it...
     
    B

    Bicentennial Douche

    Ars Legatus Legionis
    10,339
    Subscriptor
  • #26
    Sulis":lf11txfn said:
    Janne":lf11txfn said:
    So, what is the problem with the ad? They look at photos and zoom in to one. And that's misleading because...? I do that with my iPad 2 routinely with zero issues, and I don't see why looking at photos would be any worse on the new iPad. So what exactly is your complaint?
    Click to expand...

    I don't think there is a generic problem with the iPad 3 - as you can see here: http://vimeo.com/38655442. I think the DuronBoy has a specific problem with his images - but that doesn't make it less frustrating for him. Let's see if we can get to the bottom of it...
    Click to expand...

    He's making the claim that the ad is misleading. My experience says that it's not. Sure, I don't know what happens if you deal with humongous pictures (pictures from my DSLR are around 10 megapixels). But even if (and thats a big if) iPad struggles with such pictures, it does not mean that the ad is misleading. They are showing something which is perfectly possible even on iPad 2, so I fail to see what's wrong with the ad. They are not saying anything about how many megapixels the pics in the ad are. Replicating what is done in the ad is easy and simple.
     
    D

    DuronBoy

    Ars Tribunus Militum
    2,189
  • #27
    I did a quick little shoot yesterday afternoon, and I processed my files as I usually do. I load them up in ACR 6.4.1, do a few quick adjustments, proceed to CS5 to do my Nik filters, finally save as a level 10 JPG. I loaded the files up in itunes, synced, and same story. Slow. Average file size before iTunes is 2.7MB, average file size in the ipad is 2.1MB. Not that any of that matters.

    I created a screenshot on my iPad 3. The iOS made that into a 1536 x 2048 .PNG image, which I then copied to my PC. Then, I saved it as a level 3 JPG, and the resulting file was 150KB. Next, I saved the .PNG to a level 10 .JPG, and the resulting file size was 477KB. Finally, I saved the .PNG to a .TIFF, and the resulting file was 15MB! Then, I synced both JPGs, the original 2MB PNG, and the 15MB TIFF back to the ipad. The level 3 JPG was now 300K, but all 3 others were about 470K. So, that tells us that it doesn't even matter what file format you use. At a given resolution, iTunes will do what it will to your file.

    The resolution of all my files before iTunes is 5616 x 3744, but of course they're 4608 x 3072 once in the iPad 3. Sulis, your D3 shoots 12MP, and iTunes isn't going to increase the resolution of the image. It only resamples if the image is LARGER than 14MP. Therefor, the files living in your iPad 3 are still 4256 x 2832. Not a huge difference, but I did try some D3 samples from dpreview. http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/reviewsamples/albums/nikon-d3-review-samples. I must say that they load WAY faster on my iPad 3. I can't image why there's such a speed difference between 12MP and 14MP files. But, if you'd like to play with MY files, or just look at how shitty my photography is, click here: http://www.mediafire.com/?nxh3x9ui322t69q


    flyingember":2ltwjv1u said:
    stop comparing it to desktop functionality.
    Click to expand...

    I just noticed this part of your post. Um, when did I compare my iPad 3 to a desktop? I compared it to an original iPad.

    hestermofet":2ltwjv1u said:
    14MP Is not a "huge" file: I bought a point and shoot yesterday for $80 that shoots at 12MP. 12MP is the absolute baseline for a low end consumer level camera.
    Click to expand...

    Yeah, I thought I'd look at the cheapest currently available digital cameras and see what I could come up with:

    crapcam.jpg


    14MP for $50. Unless you look at a rare 10MP canon high-end point and shoot geared for more tech-savvy individuals, you're going to find very high-MP cameras in the consumer space.

    Aetles":2ltwjv1u said:
    hestermofet":2ltwjv1u said:
    I think it's a case of a new feature being introduced before the rest of the hardware is ready for it.
    Click to expand...

    So you're say that they should have keept the low resolution screen?

    Just because this edge case (yes, it is) is too much for the current hardware doesn't mean that most users won't enjoy the new screen tremendously without any disappointment.
    Click to expand...

    I, personally, love the new high-resolution display, even though I know in order to have high response times, I'm going to have to slightly resize my images before syncing them. The average user, however, isn't going to jack with that. They're going to load their very middle of the road 14MP files onto it and possibly be disappointed if they expect the kind of speed advertised, or achieved with previous iPad models. So no, this is not an edge case, and now you know why.

    arrrg":2ltwjv1u said:
    While it's sad that the .01% of iPad users who want to display massive images are disappointed. That leaves the 99.9% of people who think regular sized images look great not complaining that the iPad is slow. There's a trade off in things.

    Perhaps someone will write an app that gets around the problem.
    Click to expand...

    So you think only .01% of iPad 3 owners will have cameras 14MP or higher? Ok. Your solution is for me to spend even more money to make it work right? I can just hear the Apple commercial now, "Photos loading slow? There's an app for that!"

    Janne":2ltwjv1u said:
    DuronBoy":2ltwjv1u said:
    Janne":2ltwjv1u said:
    DuronBoy":2ltwjv1u said:
    Plus, there's the commercial where it shows someone looking at photos. The impression is that the photos are professional, and that load times are half-second to INSTANT. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJxZ0HVQXo8
    Click to expand...

    So, are you saying that the ad is misleading? Funny, I have looked at photos countless times on my iPad 2, and I see nothing weird in the ad.
    Click to expand...

    See, we're talking about the iPad 3, or as Apple likes to call it, "The new iPad."
    Click to expand...

    So, what is the problem with the ad? They look at photos and zoom in to one. And that's misleading because...? I do that with my iPad 2 routinely with zero issues, and I don't see why looking at photos would be any worse on the new iPad. So what exactly is your complaint?
    Click to expand...

    Maybe you haven't been reading the posts. The resolution of the new iPad is 4 times higher than your iPad 2, but has pretty much the same processing capacity with regards to non-3D content. The complaint is that's it's now taking longer to load images with the built-in photo app, after iTunes has optimized them.

    Sulis":2ltwjv1u said:
    Janne":2ltwjv1u said:
    So, what is the problem with the ad? They look at photos and zoom in to one. And that's misleading because...? I do that with my iPad 2 routinely with zero issues, and I don't see why looking at photos would be any worse on the new iPad. So what exactly is your complaint?
    Click to expand...

    I don't think there is a generic problem with the iPad 3 - as you can see here: http://vimeo.com/38655442. I think the DuronBoy has a specific problem with his images - but that doesn't make it less frustrating for him. Let's see if we can get to the bottom of it...
    Click to expand...

    I haven't watched your video yet, but I plan to later in the day as I get time. I'll also make my own.

    ... ok, I just made a crude one, too. I apologize in advance that it's sideways. I wanted to get as much of the ipad 3 view as possible. I should have just turned the ipad sideways. Ah well. Anyway, it's got a new bug! Well, two new bugs,really. One bug is in the video, where it loads images weirdly. Another bug: Sometimes, when I remove item(s) from the ipad, free space doesn't appear. The damn thing simply adds more to the yellow "other" bar, in the meter in itunes. I've got almost half a gig in the 'other' bar right now, and it's all from jacking with photos. This is all after I erased 'all content and settings' because I thought that some of the laggyness was due to the fact that I synced this ipad to my oiginal ipad restore. I'll have the ipad 3 OS from apple in about 6 hours so I'll try and restore to that as a last ditch effort. If it's still weird, I'll try restoring on my laptop. If that doesn't work, back to the store it goes. And oh yeah, before I even synced it the very first time, I had iTunes 10.6.0.40. Here's the short vid http://vimeo.com/38684712

    I plan on making one with the 5D2 later to show that second load that takes another 10 seconds sometimes after the initial load after the double-tap zoom.
     
    D

    DuronBoy

    Ars Tribunus Militum
    2,189
  • #28
    Janne":zqb5pl39 said:
    Sulis":zqb5pl39 said:
    Janne":zqb5pl39 said:
    So, what is the problem with the ad? They look at photos and zoom in to one. And that's misleading because...? I do that with my iPad 2 routinely with zero issues, and I don't see why looking at photos would be any worse on the new iPad. So what exactly is your complaint?
    Click to expand...

    I don't think there is a generic problem with the iPad 3 - as you can see here: http://vimeo.com/38655442. I think the DuronBoy has a specific problem with his images - but that doesn't make it less frustrating for him. Let's see if we can get to the bottom of it...
    Click to expand...

    He's making the claim that the ad is misleading. My experience says that it's not. Sure, I don't know what happens if you deal with humongous pictures (pictures from my DSLR are around 10 megapixels). But even if (and thats a big if) iPad struggles with such pictures, it does not mean that the ad is misleading. They are showing something which is perfectly possible even on iPad 2, so I fail to see what's wrong with the ad. They are not saying anything about how many megapixels the pics in the ad are. Replicating what is done in the ad is easy and simple.
    Click to expand...

    Your experience is with a different product. But, if you want to keep talking about your iPad 2, I'll repeat that my iPad 1 has better image load times than the iPad 3, so your iPad 2 BETTER HAVE! Now, if you have an iPad 3, and a camera that's at least 14MP, you contributions to this thread will be considered useful.

    Tell ya what, I'll go out and buy a new camera. I'm going to the store and buy one for less than $100, which is the price point that most people purchase new cameras. It will be 14-16MP. It will, of course, shoot just jpg, and I will not edit the files in any way. I'll just sync them up.
     
    H

    hestermofet

    Ars Legatus Legionis
    24,803
  • #29
    Aetles":207z0rzm said:
    Just because this edge case (yes, it is)
    Click to expand...

    You're a giant purple panda from Mars (yes, you are). In other words, citation needed. In addition to the citation already provided by DuronBoy and myself, here's the list of top makes of cameras on Flickr. Note that the lowest resolution in the top 10 is still 5MP (the iPhone 4).
    http://bighugelabs.com/topcameras.php

    Apple doesn't create products for edge cases. They make the iPad camera connection kit.
     
    S

    Sulis

    Ars Praefectus
    5,295
    Subscriptor
  • #30
    As has been pointed out, it really shouldn't matter what MP over 5mp the originals are, since iTunes should resampled them down anyway.

    I haven't had a chance to transfer DuronBoy's files to the iPad, but it's looking as though the problem may be in the way iTunes resamples his images. If it is introducing glitches, that could cause the iPad's GPU problems...
     
    D

    DuronBoy

    Ars Tribunus Militum
    2,189
  • #31
    I got a 16MP POS PnS. http://vimeo.com/38702783

    In the video, when I refer to itunes compressing the cropped files from 4MB to 2MB, in fact most of the cropped images are less than 2MB to begin with. The very first image is 1.38MB, and after it got shipped to the iPad 3, it's 1.47MB. And again, the video doesn't show the final 5-10 second load after the double-tap zoom. This goes for the 5D2 photographs, too, but when you let an image load, double-tap zoom, let it load AGAIN, then zoom back out, the image on-screen is even sharper. I've noticed this phenomena on the original iPad, as well. Since the screen is lower resolution, it's a tad more noticeable. Anyway, if you want to play with the images in the video from the Olympus, here's a link: http://www.mediafire.com/?8u4771ngb5yafpy I did adjust some settings in camera. I changed the white balance to cloudy and the flash to always off, since this camera was too stupid to realize it was outside photographing things dozens, even hundreds of feet away. Also, I adjusted the exposure compensation. After I got the images loaded and was waiting for the vimeo to upload, I got to playing with the menu on the Olympus and found a setting to decrease the jpg compression. It was on the default 'normal' for the shots in the video, but I set it to 'fine' afterwards and new files look just a tad better. Still surprising how my iPhone has better detail at the same focal length.

    My iPad firmware just got done, so I'm going to go restore now.
     
    D

    DuronBoy

    Ars Tribunus Militum
    2,189
  • #32
    Well, after a restore, the buggyness, as well as the laggyness is identical. I even added double the photos this time. The images that had weird problems in the videos, like linking to other images, still have weird problems. The next step is to get all the files on a portable hard drive and try this from my laptop. Then, I'm going to try shooting jpg on the 5D2, so I don't even have to touch the files with CS5. For the Olympus files, I'm going to download some other photo editing program to do the cropping. Finally, before I give the fuck up, I'm going to try an earlier version of iTunes, if this iPad will have any of that.
     
    S

    spartak

    Ars Tribunus Militum
    1,585
  • #33
    I really dont get your beef with this like others already expressed. Your expecting desktop class behaviour from a tablet, that's just not realistic. Making such a big deal out of it makes me quite envious of your apparent situation. Comparing the iPad 3 to an original iPad makes _no sense_ because the iPad 3 pushes 4 times as many pixels. You are complaining a certain usage scenario but the remedy would at this point be no retina screen at all.

    Here's an advice: reduce the images to 3 MP and they'll load 4 times faster, maybe even more as they might be exceeding the size of videocaching that slows it to a snail's pace. If you really "NEED" to show clients high res images the iPad is not the device you should use, or you should just wait a few seconds. You make it sound as if your clients are high-level corporate executives that cannot stand to wait just a few seconds when you skip through some images.

    My smartphone has an SD card problem (it destroys them). Manufacturer says they cannot find any issues so here's to hoping the software update they gave it addresses the issue. Am I bothered by it? Slightly because THAT is a case of a device not working as it should, giving me additional cost, productivity problems, loss of data (forgetting to backup data) and loss of functionality. But man, i have far more serious problems.
     
    S

    Sulis

    Ars Praefectus
    5,295
    Subscriptor
  • #35
    spartak":2x5er5qj said:
    Here's an advice: reduce the images to 3 MP and they'll load 4 times faster, maybe even more as they might be exceeding the size of videocaching that slows it to a snail's pace. If you really "NEED" to show clients high res images the iPad is not the device you should use, or you should just wait a few seconds. You make it sound as if your clients are high-level corporate executives that cannot stand to wait just a few seconds when you skip through some images.
    Click to expand...
    I'm sorry, spartak, but that's bollocks. I have been going through the Canon 5D Mk 2 images that he linked to earlier - which have been reduced to 3MP JPEGs - and loaded them on my iPad 3 (and very nice they are too). They show the same behaviour that he reported and videoed, in terms of slow (3-8 seconds) to resolve. However, these ones zoom in just fine, and I don't get the weird white bars etc. (that may be with his 14MP ones).

    So what is going on? It cannot just be an iTunes resampling, it cannot just be a size issue, and it is now unlikely to be a dud iPad.

    I will try the other set this evening, but I reiterate that with my Nikon DSLR photos I do not see this behaviour - so I am inclined to blame Canon... :)
     
    D

    DuronBoy

    Ars Tribunus Militum
    2,189
  • #36
    Sulis":2ihbqhw6 said:
    spartak":2ihbqhw6 said:
    Here's an advice: reduce the images to 3 MP and they'll load 4 times faster, maybe even more as they might be exceeding the size of videocaching that slows it to a snail's pace. If you really "NEED" to show clients high res images the iPad is not the device you should use, or you should just wait a few seconds. You make it sound as if your clients are high-level corporate executives that cannot stand to wait just a few seconds when you skip through some images.
    Click to expand...
    I'm sorry, spartak, but that's bollocks. I have been going through the Canon 5D Mk 2 images that he linked to earlier - which have been reduced to 3MP JPEGs - and loaded them on my iPad 3 (and very nice they are too). They show the same behaviour that he reported and videoed, in terms of slow (3-8 seconds) to resolve. However, these ones zoom in just fine, and I don't get the weird white bars etc. (that may be with his 14MP ones).

    So what is going on? It cannot just be an iTunes resampling, it cannot just be a size issue, and it is now unlikely to be a dud iPad.

    I will try the other set this evening, but I reiterate that with my Nikon DSLR photos I do not see this behaviour - so I am inclined to blame Canon... :)
    Click to expand...

    The majority of my clients are indeed lower to middle-class. But yeah, no one has patience for anything, anymore.

    As far as file size of the zip images, the images in that zip are indeed original 21MP 5616 x 3744 Canon 5D II files. They haven't been resized or cropped. I'm not sure where you're getting 3MP from?
     
    D

    DuronBoy

    Ars Tribunus Militum
    2,189
  • #37
    I synced the new images to my iPhone 4S and now it's got some weird shit going on, too. The first image in every folder except 2 is a blank white image that says JPG. One of the images in the folder from friday's shoot has a solid white thumbnail. Loads just fine after a second on full-view, though. I'm thinking rolling back to an earlier itunes or reinstalling iTunes is my next step.
     
    D

    DuronBoy

    Ars Tribunus Militum
    2,189
  • #38
    spartak":35h5k99j said:
    I really dont get your beef with this like others already expressed. Your expecting desktop class behaviour from a tablet, that's just not realistic. Making such a big deal out of it makes me quite envious of your apparent situation. Comparing the iPad 3 to an original iPad makes _no sense_ because the iPad 3 pushes 4 times as many pixels. You are complaining a certain usage scenario but the remedy would at this point be no retina screen at all.

    Here's an advice: reduce the images to 3 MP and they'll load 4 times faster, maybe even more as they might be exceeding the size of videocaching that slows it to a snail's pace. If you really "NEED" to show clients high res images the iPad is not the device you should use, or you should just wait a few seconds. You make it sound as if your clients are high-level corporate executives that cannot stand to wait just a few seconds when you skip through some images.

    My smartphone has an SD card problem (it destroys them). Manufacturer says they cannot find any issues so here's to hoping the software update they gave it addresses the issue. Am I bothered by it? Slightly because THAT is a case of a device not working as it should, giving me additional cost, productivity problems, loss of data (forgetting to backup data) and loss of functionality. But man, i have far more serious problems.
    Click to expand...

    My apparent situation is the situation for the majority of those who bought a dSLR since the launch of the original iPad. That's right, the majority of dSLR models since 2009 have been 14MP or higher. Anyone trying to load those 14MP files is going to experience increases in load times that are sometimes more than the 4 times increase in resolution, which " makes _no sense_ because" of the increased capability of the processor.

    Your advice " makes _no sense_ because" if you'd followed the thread more carefully, you'd note that images about 10% smaller(i.e. D3 images that are 12MP) load just fine.

    spartak":35h5k99j said:
    btw it's not called cropping but resampling. Cropping would be if you cut out 3/4 of the image.
    Click to expand...

    Again, you really haven't bothered to follow though before replying. If you'd at least watched the video, you'd know the files I was referring to were indeed cropped.
     
    S

    Sulis

    Ars Praefectus
    5,295
    Subscriptor
  • #39
    DuronBoy":278dgg7v said:
    As far as file size of the zip images, the images in that zip are indeed original 21MP 5616 x 3744 Canon 5D II files. They haven't been resized or cropped. I'm not sure where you're getting 3MP from?
    Click to expand...
    Apologies - my mistake. The files in the 5D2Shoot folder are 3Mb JPEGs (ie. the actual size of the file)...

    On my D3 a 12MP image (saved as NEF (RAW equivalent) + JPG) at high quality will show a JPG size of about 5Mb. Are you shooting JPEGs, or are you converting them from RAW? If you are shooting JPEGs, what quality setting are you using (as for a 21MP image the JPEG size should be a lot higher than the D3's)...? It may be that there is extreme JPEG compression going on to get the 21MP files down to 3Mb (which expands to over 60Mb in Photoshop), and that this is much harder for the iPad to reassemble.

    So one thing you could try is using far less JPEG compression on your images, and see if that helps. This may not be the answer, as the Olympus JPEGs are slightly larger than the Canon ones (though the Olympus is a 14MP, I think). The Olympus shots that have been cropped (down to about 2Mb actual file size) seem to open much faster than the uncropped (3.5Mb) ones - which take absolutely ages - but they still open much slower than my 5Mb (actual file size) Nikon JPEGs or even the 12Mb NEF ones.

    So what the heck is going on? I don't see the weird white bars or replacing images behaviour that you do, which may be a clue as well, but I definitely see the resolving lag in both your Canon and Olympus shots. This appears to rule out camera glitches. It could still be somehow connected to higher than 12MP images - I will have to see if I can borrow someone's camera to test that. But since iTunes resamples the damn things I find it hard to believe.

    Let's look at the rest of your system. What computer OS are you using? I use Mac OS 10.6.8...
     
    S

    Sulis

    Ars Praefectus
    5,295
    Subscriptor
  • #40
    OK, I downloaded a full size 5DMk2 image from here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/glouk/5554020094/sizes/o/, and synced it to my iPad3. That downloads to 11Mb.

    But, just as with your other Canon images, that takes about 5 seconds to resolve fully when opening it. Once opened, it zooms in instantly. So it's not all about your system.

    So next I uprezzed one of my Nikon D3 images to 52MP, and saved it both as a highest-quality JPEG (33Mb) and a .PSD (106.2Mb) file, then synced to the iPad. The JPEG took about 5-7 seconds to fully resolve, while (bizarrely) .PSD file had a much shorter lag of about half as second.

    My tentative conclusions are that the resolving lag issue - which does affect both my and DuronBoy's iPads - is related to both file size over 12MP AND format, with JPEGs being suspect.

    Have you tried saving the images in .PSD?

    Edit: Apologies again - sloppy saving - the .PSD file should be 444Mb, and having synced it this too has a lag of about 6 seconds. So forget that file format making much difference.

    Looking at the actual files on the iPad (using iPhone Explorer) I can see that the .JPG sizes for the upsized Zebra are all about 5 Mb. It's a bit tricky, as the images all get given internal file names (IMG_XXXX.JPG), but you can also see the dates. The Canon 5D images (uncropped) range from 1.4 to 2.6Mb, while the Olympus ones (uncropped) range from 1.6 to 3.3 Mb (for example, the pine cones shot is 3.3Mb uncropped, and 3.1Mb cropped). However, many of my D3 shots (not upsized, at 12MP) are 5-6Mp on the iPad, and they open instantly.

    WTF???

    So it's not about the file size on the iPad.
     
    Status
    Not open for further replies.
    Jump to latest Follow Reply
    Jump to latest Follow Reply