A Missouri lawmaker is pushing a measure that would require identification each time a person uses Apple Pay with their iPhone or other mobile payment systems on their non-Apple phones.
“Democratic Rep. Joshua Peters of St. Louis says the bill he introduced Wednesday requires customers to show a state driver’s license or other identification when they use a mobile wallet app or other electronic payment system,” The Associated Press reports. “He says it will prevent fraud if the mobile device is lost or stolen.”
AP reports, “Merchants would have to record the license or identification number or could be responsible for the illegal purchases made if a device is reported stolen.”
Brief article in full here.
MacDailyNews Take: You know, because nothing proves iPhone ownership like a driver’s license. The “logic” of some politicos never ceases to astound.
Leave our Apple Pay alone, dummy! If we’re forced to take out our ID each time, we might as well just take our our credit card, thereby negating all of Apple Pay’s appeal in one fell swoop. Apple should contact this simpleton and others like him and nip this in the bud with clear explanations as to why this is a bad, totally unnecessary idea.
For other, more insecure systems, perhaps this is an idea with some merit, but for Apple Pay, which requires the user’s unique fingerprint to make a payment, it only serves to take an extremely convenient and secure payment method and make it inconvenient – all because some clueless politician hasn’t bothered to take the time to understand something as basic as Touch ID before pushing misguided, ignorant legislation that ruins a perfectly secure and seamless system.
Contact information for Rep. Joshua Peters:
Phone: 573-751-7605
E-Mail: joshua.peters@house.mo.gov
[Thanks to MacDailyNews Reader “Robert” for the heads up.]
I sense that this guy’s inbox is about to fill up.
email sent…..let the fill up begin!!!
I told him to read up on Apple Pay.
And a drivers license wont prove ownership of the phone.
And how about a license to vote?
gave him a “libs don’t have a clue”
Good point about voter ID. This guy MUST be a racist for requiring an ID for using a credit card!
Also, almost all cashiers never check ID. I don’t even have my signature on my Credit Cards, I simply write “CHECK ID”. Even then, they don’t ask.
I sure don’t have to show my ID when using a debit card and entering a PIN. If looking to prevent fraud might want to start there. Outer wise this guy just proves how clueless Washington is. America has much bigger problems than Apple Pay.
That lib ‘don’t have a clue’!
But keep in mind that it was a certain sect of the current Republicans who’ve been demanding an ID to vote.
∑ = Dimwits all round.
No way!!! A “libs don’t have a clue” eh? Whoa! You really told him!!!
Democrat ≠ Liberal
email sent
“You, sir, are a great example of why politicians are held in such low esteem.
You might want to look into how Apple Pay works, how the iPhone 6 (required to use Apple Pay) works before wasting a lot of peoples’ time on a bullshit piece of legislation.
You remind me of something my grandfather told me a long time ago: Better to not say anything and appear stupid, than to open your mouth and prove it.”
Heres mine:
“Good Sir,
Where was this brilliant idea to prevent credit card theft prior to the rise of secure electronic biometric payments?
Don’t you understand that biometrics completely eliminates the need for any other form of qualifying identification?
Perhaps you do, but you’re just trolling for some national exposure by riding on the coattails of the most successful company in U.S. history?
Well, congratulations – you did it!
The entire country now knows who you are: Just another spineless, ignorant bureaucrat, motivated exclusively by your desire for self-advancement and a misguided belief that the American public is dumb enough to let you get away with it.”
But no ID to vote? 🙂
Of course not, that would be inconvenient and inconsiderate to low-income workers… or something. Nevermind how many other things you need to have ID for to function at a normal level in US society.
Why just US society? Are you somehow different from the other 95% of the world?
Voter ID happens to be a hot, and inexplicably divisive, topic in US right now. You want some? You can have it.
The bill is about a US state, involves a US lawmaker, and the comparison is to voter ID, a hot topic in US society. It’s called context. Time to stop looking for insults under every bed.
Of course not, how would Dem/Lib/Progs ever get elected?
Actually, it’s so that republicans can get elected. The notion of voter fraud is just that – a notion. Carnegie-Knight reports that in the entire U.S. there have only been 2,068 ALLEGED cases of fraud out of the many hundreds of millions of votes cast since the year 2000. Only 10 of those cases were allegations of voter impersonation and only 14 were of voters who were ineligible to vote. The most prevalent “type” of alleged fraud was absentee ballot fraud – which voter ID laws do nothing to address. And note that these numbers are allegations, not proven cases. http://votingrights.news21.com/interactive/election-fraud-database
But the divisive issue is not having ID to vote; it’s the requirement by certain republican states to require *specific* ID that not everyone has and that can be very time consuming, inconvenient and expensive to acquire, particularly for poor and elderly minorities living in rural communities. Those republicans are simply trying to make it harder for certain people who typically vote democrat to be able to vote at all.
No. The voter ID that is being required is a driver’s license or a state ID. There is nothing expensive or difficult to obtain such things, and the states that do require them often provide state IDs for free. The whole idea is to prevent vote/voter fraud, period. This does reduce Democrat turnout, because it eliminates the kind of union-led antics that got Harry Reid elected in NV and Franken elected in MN. Go do your research, liar. You’ll find out about how Dems ROUTINELY bus in people to vote (as in NV), and boxes of ballots ROUTINELY show up (MN), and in WA. That’s not even getting into how easy it is to hack voting machines (again, go do research). And let’s talk about the Florida election of 2000, shall we? Remember the Democrat voting board member who had a voting machine in his trunk? The ballots that were despoiled? The continually-changing standards for what counts as a valid vote? Do you remember how Gore had his lawyers on the ground BEFORE the voting was done? The cries about “the ballot is hard to understand, so let’s recount”? Where did the voting problems in FL occur? Only in counties that had Democrat-dominated voting boards. And don’t forget the Secretary of State project, or ACORN, or “Smokes for Votes”, or keeping the polls in St. Louis open later than the appointed closing time every year, the sections in Philly that didn’t have a SINGLE REPUBLICAN vote in 2008, and the counties in Ohio that reported more than then # of people living there voted. Vote/voter fraud happens in many different ways, but one way is to overwhelm the system with garbage data so that signatures/names/IDs can’t all be verified so some bogus ones get through (a la Secretary of State project). Anyone who doesn’t think vote/voter fraud is real doesn’t actually follow elections and doesn’t understand how the party of child-murder operates.
Specifically photo ID, just to be clear. Photo ID is the game changer in preventing vote/voter fraud, because they are much harder/expensive to forge.
And there’s your problem. Elderly poor people living in rural communities often don’t have drivers licenses. Social Security cards don’t have photos. There are recorded instances of such people having to travel over 100 miles (remember they don’t drive) to a government office to obtain an acceptable ID. Rural areas, no public transport, and the offices are only open weekdays – meaning their (just as poor) kids have to take a day off work to drive them there. Just to exercise their constitutionally protected right to vote.
I’m from a rural area. I never met an elderly person who didn’t have an ID, especially the civic minded ones that voted. They are from a different era.
You just repeated a fabricated straw-man argument that could pass for a scarecrow.
100 miles? That’s a HUGE county. Most states offer free ID and will either come to your home or provide transportation.
At least present a logical argument. You claim this ‘fact’ as if it affects 1 in 10 American. How on earth do they get to the voting booth with just a walker in the snow and ice?
Damn…..maybe we should automatically count all of them as Democrats?
TowerTone: Of course they have IDs. Even photo IDs. Just not always ID that is acceptable to the voting authorities in some Republican states. There is probably more voting fraud by voting officials than by voters. And why is 50 miles each way so huge in a rural county?
Even if (in your words) MOST states will come to your home, not all will. In Texas, a comprehensive drive to get IDs to the estimated 600,000 registered Texas voters who lack them should have come from the state in time for the 2014 elections. But U.S. District Court Judge Nelva Gonzales Ramos found that Texas’s outreach was utterly ineffective: By the end of August, it had given out just 279 IDs.
I thought republicans were the so called defenders of the constitution. Just not when it comes to ensuring that ALL citizens are able to vote, huh?
@TowerTone: my father was one of those “no-ID” individuals. He stopped traveling (and let his passport expire) and a few years later, he did the responsible thing and decided he was unsafe to drive and gave up that Photo ID too, leaving him with none. Sure, he could have in theory jumped through the hoops to get another ID, but that would have been a BS administrative burden imposed on a WW2 Combat Vet who didn’t stop to show his passport in Normandy.
And while this is just a personal anecdote, you can open your eyes by going down to your local Senior Center & Nursing Homes and ****volunteering your time*** to go get every one of those residents the required ID. Please do let us know how many you get processed each month until the 2016 Elections.
You call me a liar??? Because I provided backup for the well known and accepted (and corroborated by data collected by the Republican National Lawyers Association – see
http://www.alternet.org/story/153435/republican_lawyers_group%27s_own_study_undercuts_vote_fraud_claims/) that there is virtually NO voter fraud in the US. And only a miniscule fraction of that would be prevented by voter ID laws.
You call me a liar? Where’s your backup for the crap you throw around? You want to talk Florida?? Try this: http://www.npr.org/2012/10/02/162176990/republican-firm-tied-to-voter-fraud-allegations
Your credibility is nil.
While your stats may be for reported cases of alleged voter fraud, how about all the potential unreported cases? How many times have people voted more than once, under different identities, but no one caught it? Sure, that’s speculation, but voter fraud is as old as voting itself. Think of the ancient Greeks and their pebble voting system (drop pebbles into your candidate’s container), and how many Greeks would try to sneak two pebbles into the container?
The point is voting multiple times, or voting when you are not eligible to vote (even for as simple of a reason as you don’t live in the district having the vote), can be curtailed by requiring a photo ID to vote. You need a photo ID to have a bank account, to get government benefits, to drive a car, to go into many government buildings, etc. And if states provide a means for a free photo ID to those who cannot afford one, then where is the harm?
Bizlaw – but the problem is the elderly poor people living in rural areas. They don’t drive so don’t have a drivers license. They opened their bank accounts decades ago when they didn’t need photo IDs. Their social security cards don’t have photos. There are recorded cases of them having to travel over 100 miles to go to the nearest government office that would issue an acceptable ID. And those offices are only open weekdays. These are rural areas with no public transit. Sons or daughters have to take a day off work (that they can’t afford to do) to take elderly relatives to get the ID, just so they can exercise their constitutionally protected right to vote. Voter ID laws do virtually nothing to stop voter fraud, which is virtually nonexistent anyway. All those laws do is prevent genuine people from voting. That is the harm.
It has been well-documented that the “voter identity fraud” problem is NOT actually a thing that happens in any non-negligible way.
So, there are only two reasons someone might push for voter-ID laws that are known to reduce voter turnout:
1) The proponent is ignorant about the fact that voter identity fraud isn’t a real problem; or
2) The proponent knows that is a false reason and is pushing it because they know it will disproportionately reduce turnout among poor and minority communities.
So, are Republicans (and voter-ID-pushing Democrats, for that matter) ignorant or evil? You tell me.
Maybe they just question your “statistics”. Is that against the law? Or is it written by God that no one must question your statistics?
“Lies, damned lies, and statistics” Mark Twain.
Require ID. Then we can have confidence that there is not voter fraud.
you’re missing the point. The overwhelming majority of voter fraud accusations pertain to allegations of absentee ballot-related voter fraud, which are generally not addressed by voter ID requirements. So you’re creating cost, inconvenience, and disenfranchisement for the purpose of…. effectively nothing at all.
Add that to the criticism of government for its alleged inefficiency and bureaucracy… it’s hard to see why any sane person would want to be part of a government agency, when the politicians’ directives are “do this stupid thing” followed by criticism because “government employees are always doing stupid things!”
If voting worked, it would be illegal.
No, you need even more ID to vote, to make sure less of the riff-raff get to vote.
LOL. You wish that’s what was going on. However, photo ID dramatically reduces the ability to game the system. If gaming the system is quashed, look for Democrat influence to wane.
Exactly. Gaming the system = letting the riff-raff vote.
Gaming the system = stopping poor people from voting.
MDN’s Take:
+1000
Is ID required for current credit card transactions? If not, regardless of the security of Apple Pay (or any other similar product) this is even more stupid than it seems.
Politicians with rare exceptions do not show a very high IQ.
Our “duly authorized representatives” are all mostly doofuses in the tech dept., and most other departments as well. The more you know (about them), the more you despair.
“Suppose you were an idiot, and suppose you were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself.”
– Mark Twain
(Twain died in 1910. The more things change, the more they stay the same.)
Perhaps he would do better to introduce a law whereby politicians must properly understand what they are talking about.
Apple Pay is designed around a fingerprint sensor. That totally eliminates the need for additional ID checks.
EXACTLY! What is easier to fake, a driver’s license or a fingerprint?
Driver’s license, clearly, so if you’re already requiring the *more* secure authentication, the less secure one is pretty much irrelevant.
It’s like asking for your sriver’s license when you buy booze….then asking for your library card as backup proof.
I was just about to post the same thing.
Apple Pay is authenticated using your fingerprint – the ultimate identification.
Does this guy even know what Apple Pay is and how it works? I’m guessing not.
Yes, exactly. Personal identification is pretty much already built in. Dumb-assery, thy name is Joshua. I love how our leaders educate themselves before they open their mouths. :/
From this day forth, let it be known that each and every each motor operator in the great state of Missouri shall have not less than one draft horse tethered to their horseless carriage.
Start with the vehicles which transport state legislators. Call it a pilot project.
Funny side effect. Pulled by one horse, but leaving a trail of many horses worth of horse shit.
Another clueless elected official. The phone login itself serves the same purpose as the ID check. We don’t have to show ID to use a credit card. Jaheezus!!!
This is what you get for not have adopted pin and chip across the country.
Pin and chip. Is that anything like fish & chips? Not as tasty I imagine. 😉
How the hell would they know if it was your phone? that makes no sense – Who the hell elects these people?
Yeah, it’s especially silly as the phone does not tell the retailer your name so they would not be checking the ID against anything.
Pay does require ID already – your fingerprint!!!
Could be worse. Could be a Republican requiring an ultrasound for every purchase.
Yes, because an ultrasound to verify that you have a brain would fail.
No, could be even worse. How about some idiotic vitriol as spewed by your party:
“Read the Republican contract,” Rep. John Lewis (Democrat – Georgia) said on the House floor on March 21, 1995. “They’re coming for our children. They’re coming for the poor. They’re coming for the sick, the elderly and the disabled.” Lewis’s comment paraphrased a famous passage by Rev. Martin Niemöller, who was in the resistance against the Nazis.
That makes no sense, but logic and the party of child-murder are not often related. I suppose logic must fail after years of defending Ted Kennedy and Bill Clinton.
These are kind of lame-brains that the proletariate vote into office – over and over again.
Is this how clueless US lawmakers (politicians) are? God help us.
The law is an ass, comes to mind.
Perhaps he should look into voters showing an ID and leave Apple alone.
email sent to elected official requesting he actually read how ApplePay works……..
Fingerprint trumps Drivers License everytime……no one ever would make false drivers licenses would they……..oh wait….
Another political HACK trying to justify their MORONIC existence…….!!!
Laughable…which begs the question “Just what are politicians good for?” apart from the job being a refuge for the totally clueless.
WalMart’s lobbyists at work!
My email alert just transmitted and TY
*** New legislation sponsored by Walmart™
I just sent an email to Rep. Peters. Please take time to do the Dear Representative Peters:
I have an iPhone 6 and have used ApplePay many times at McDonalds, Subway, Walgreens, and Home Depot.
Use of ApplePay uniquely REQUIRES authentication from the iPhone owners recorded unique fingerprint scan. That is why all the nation’s major banks are rushing to embrace the technology because they realize it greatly reduces fraudulent use. This fingerprint authentication has never effectively been thwarted to my knowledge.
Requiring further identification would only inconvenience shoppers and not add to any security enhancement.
Please take the time to learn about ApplePay (possibly from the IT/security staffs) of some of our local, participating banks), and exclude applicable IPhones from this potential onerous requirement.
Respectfully,
Jared Porter”
Typical Democrat. Goes off half-cocked on some mindless crusade that only ends up complicating life for regular people.
Mindless crusade is a phrase more apt to what President Bush did in Iraq. This guy is just mindless period. Or perhaps CurentC is headquartered in his district and he is of sound mind and body but completely bought and paid for.
The Republicans are the ones who make decisions based on what they feel, versus actual evidence. I’d say that the Democrats are, by far, the fact-based party. The GOP, just like one of Limbaugh’s books, thinks they know “The way things ought to be,” facts be damned.
No, no, they should definitely go ahead with this bill, but there should only be one single little amendment to the draft bill that would exclude from this requirement all devices that contain biometric data (such as, say, a fingerprint) for the user. In other words, if a mobile phone requires the owner to authenticate mobile payment transaction with a biometric sensor, then they are not required to produce a photo ID.
By doing that, the mobile market would be practically handed over to Apple (since no other mobile solution offers biometric authentication).
I would agree with this with the caveat that the amendment make allowances that such bio-metric data that is proved to be easily forged on pertinent devices still fall under the requirement for secondary ID. Also I have read about security card systems now that have bio-metric sensors built into the card. This allows current pass card based ID systems to upgrade their security w/o losing the investment in all those readers. I don’t see why this will not eventually carry over to credit cards which still have greater acceptance than Apple devices.
guess he doesn’t know about fake id’s – another brain dead politician
He should change his name to “fuckin stoooopid”
Why say this is a “Democrat” move. It’s a dick move. One guy out 435…
It could be worse.It could be a stupid committee making this recommendation.
Give them time.
See? Democrats can be just as stupid as Republicans.
Oh Hell Yeah!
So I guess you should show your ID in case your credit card was stolen? And show your ID in case your cash is counterfeit?